The Singletracks survey results have rolled in, and the team is looking at what you, our readers, have to say.
There isn’t a more controversial topic among the mountain bike community than eMTBs. Well, except for maybe the wilderness debate which in some ways intersects with the topic of electric mountain bikes. Even the wheel size debate has quelled and all the news about 29ers rarely ruffles feathers.
[see_also id=’219257′]
In the survey, Singletracks asked readers for their opinions on e-bikes, if they have tried them, and why opposers aren’t ready for e-bikes.
Overall, 46% of mountain bikers that responded to the survey said that eMTBs should be allowed on non-motorized mountain bike trails. 51% said no. The numbers break down for some more interesting insight after that, though.
Demo riders more likely to support
A majority, 63% of those who said electric mountain bikes should be allowed on non-motorized trails have ridden an e-bike. Most of those who said e-bikes should not be allowed on trails, 56%, have not tried an e-bike. Still, a sizable portion of those who have ridden e-bikes, 37%, still say that they should not be allowed on non-motorized mountain bike trails.
Most opposers says their biggest concern is that allowing e-bikes on non-motorized trails would open the gates for other motorized uses, followed by concerns about user conflict and the speed of e-bikes. Other concerns include trail damage, over-crowding, and that using an e-bike is just plain “cheating.”
What’s interesting though is that the group that was the most open to e-bikes classifies themselves as “XC riders” or those that appreciate pedal power. The other categories, trail, enduro, and downhill were all pretty evenly split on the topic of e-bikes.
Younger riders are more open to eMTB
Also, younger riders were more likely to favor e-bikes than older riders. The under-18 and 18-24 crowd were the groups most in-favor of opening trails to e-bikes. 25-34 year-olds and 35-44 year-olds appear to be the least in favor of e-bikes on non-motorized trails.
In hard numbers, 56% of riders in the under-18 category were in favor of e-bikes on non-motorized trails, and so were 55% of the 55+ age group.
Mountain bikers in the 25-54 age range were the least supportive, with results below 50% in support.
This debate is going to rage on for some time, but the survey results do give us some insight and a look at some of the main reasons for and against e-bike access. In some cases, it’s a question of “chicken or the egg?” Were those who demoed e-bikes already in favor, or did riding one change their mind?
Do 55+ riders find e-bikes more useful than middle-aged riders, and is the under-18 age group more accepting of new technology?
There are a lot of questions that will go unanswered here, but it’s thought provoking to say the least.
What’s your take on these results? (Note: Avoid sharing your personal opinion about e-bikes in the comments, and instead focus on what the overall e-bike sentiment means for mountain biking going forward.)
28 Comments
Oct 22, 2018
Oct 25, 2018
Oct 22, 2018
Oct 29, 2018
This weekend's ride was a 35 mile, one battery, test. I finished with 10% left and averaged 8.4 miles an hour. And was PASSED on one climb by an XC rider.
Jul 23, 2019
Oct 23, 2018
I’d rather have a self-driving car with the capability of being sent to TH locations. I could make my own shuttle rides with that feature.
Feb 15, 2019
Jan 3, 2019
1. A class 1 eMTB is limited to 20mph and requires pedaling for the motor to be active. There is no throttle
2. The amount of motor assist can be adjusted by the rider. Those who want to work hard can work hard.
3. Due to gearing and motor control strategies, a rider is unlikely to engage the motor when riding downhill, so an eMTB is not faster when traveling downhill.
4. The eMTB does no more damage to trails than analog MTBs. See the IMBA test results.
5. An eMTB is nothing like a motocross bike. Not even remotely. I've ridden motorcycles since I was 10 years old and I still ride them. Put it this way: If I wanted a motocross bike and someone gave me an eMTB instead, I would be hugely disappointed.
6. Riding an eMTB takes the same skills as riding an analog bike, plus some new skills that you won't learn until you actually ride an eMTB.
7. Every rider who has ridden my eMTB liked it and expressed interest in getting one. This includes some super hard core MTB riders.
Feb 15, 2019
Oct 23, 2018
Pedal power is what drives me and I'm sure most others in our sport. I might be a lot old school though.
I know someone who is unable (due to heart issues) that is unable to make the steep climbs in our area (6500ft). Maybe a limited use permit should apply.
Oct 25, 2018
As a dedicated mountain biker, I hate to point this out, but this is what hikers have been saying about mountain bikers all along. Now us analog bikers aren't the fastest cats in the jungle, and we're getting a taste of our own medicine. :)
Oct 25, 2018
I agree, picking the eMTBs out of the crowd of regular MTBs will be hard, but that assumes someone is actually concerned enough (and has the time) to do it in the first place.
Another argument is that hikers or other trail uses will raise a fuss if they see eMTBs using trails, which could jeopardize existing access for regular mountain bikers. But this argument assumes folks will be able to tell the difference, which I think we both agree is hard.
Oct 25, 2018
Oct 24, 2018
Oct 24, 2018
Oct 31, 2018
How does this make sense?
Nov 1, 2018
Oct 26, 2018
Feb 15, 2019
Oct 22, 2018
FWIW, I am generally not supportive of ebikes on trails although I could be convinced if the data indicated no adverse impact to the trail or other users with two caveats: (1) we are ONLY talking pedal-assist and (2) the motor would only support speeds of up to 10mph. It's this latter point that I never hear anyone talk about. 10mph is a pretty decent speed. It doesn't mean that you can't make the bike go faster by pedaling more; it just means that the motor doesn't help you go faster. We've all experienced what it's like to fly around a curve or down a hill only to have to jam on the brakes for a rider coming in the opposite direction. I've certainly had my fair share of close calls. It's inherent to the way most trails are designed (i.e. the ability to ride in both directions). But now take a person on an ebike who has the ability to generate pedal-assist speeds of 20+mph. Imagine flying down a trail with someone coming up at a similar speed. The margin of error becomes that much smaller and, to me, presents a safety issue to other users. Whereas I understand why someone might "want" to go 20mph pedal-assist, I can't understand why someone "needs" to go more than 10mph pedal-assist.
Oct 23, 2018
Not controversial, as any new tech can be abused or exploited.
I think I said it elsewhere that nothing stops an ass from being an ass.
Proper trail etiquette is something we should all abide. Whether on a digital or analog bike.
But as far as making the bikes so fast they are a danger to others, it is highly likely that a rider's own skill level will be a much greater restriction on speed. Essentially, people will become a danger to themselves, long before they are a real danger to others. I ride with some very good riders who are on analog bikes and they are routinely faster than I am on the downhill, where there is no assist. And even if I hacked the bike, I couldn't keep up because I'm just not that good. And I think the fear will limit speeds more than anything.
The only advantage I have is in the climbs, and even then on long rides you have to use battery management or else you could be left with a 50 pound bike. Plus, not being a dick by leaving your buds. Though since I have gotten the ebike, they love it because now I am like the rabbit and they ride to keep up and get even better. And don't have to wait around for me to recover after long climbs.
And while my climbing speed increased on the digital bike, it still doesn't surpass what really good riders can do.
The problem I see with the issue of 'reduced margin of error' concern is that it is a matter of skill that will improve, just as it does for analog bikers, as a rider gets better. Again assuming the rider isn't an ass and doesn't hack their bike. And even if they do, they are more likely to wipe themselves out by riding above their abilities long before being a danger to other trail users. I've seen good riders hit 30-40 MPH on trails with analog bikes. Even a modified ebike would have trouble hitting those speeds. And deplete the battery in a heart beat.
The 2019 Levo is actually MUCH MUCH harder Hack as well. I think manufacturers already see hacking as an issue and are taking steps to prevent it. Plus given the cost of these things, most riders really won't want to risk blowing their warranty by modifying their motors.
The truly great thing about the ebike is that it has actually massively increased my riding. Both in skill and time in the saddle. Since I can now do long hard rides back to back days, where before one good long hard day would wipe out my weekend. And this is echoed by others. So in part, it isn't that I don't want to put in the work, it is that until the ebike, physical pain made it near impossible. One thing that surprised me is that due to the increased time in saddle and riding on the ebike, I have been able to increase my rides on my rigid single speed and fat bike!
So I do understand the concerns, but for the most part, the more people are exposed to the eMTBs the more I think they will understand and accept them as a true mountain bike. Many Enduro pros already are using them as training aids. So they can rider more miles more trails get more experience and improve their skills. The same improvement anyone can get by riding more.
Oct 23, 2018
1. By having the ability to double your climbing speed, you're reinforcing my point about the decreasing the margin of error for someone coming the opposite direction.
2. I also saw that in a separate post you indicated that ebikes "allow less fit riders to keep up" and that "some of of us have jobs most of the week". You're right, most of us do have jobs and families that require our time. But there are some of us that, despite these commitments, are willing to put the time in when we can. And although you probably didn't mean for it to come off this way, it can be interpreted to mean that it's an easy shortcut for those that don't want to put the effort in (which unfortunately, is a sad reflection of American culture today)
3. And what's just as critical as fitness, is skill. In many ways, the speed you carry on a mountain bike is a function of fitness and skill (most singletrack is anything but straight so you need skill to control the bike especially with increasing speed). Now imagine that we are providing less skilled people the ability to ride at high speeds with ebikes. That would certainly put other trail users at increased risk. Do you see where traditional MTB'ers can be put off by this?
4. And, on a final note, as it relates to speed, it's the ability to override the max speed that concerns the heck out of me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__KMvZtfiqE
NB: I am not saying that you or any other "specific" person would do this but there are clearly some that are and will. And if the trails are negatively impacted do you think that the decision makers are going to be able to determine it was a "rigged" ebike vs. a regular ebike vs. a traditional mountain bike? That's where we all (potentially) could be adversely affected.
Not trying to be controversial, just trying to provide some context for why they are some, like me, that are hesitant to support.
Oct 22, 2018
The real benefit is the assist takes away the hard edge of a climb, so you are fresher and more able to enjoy, and control, your descents. Plus the ability to ride 30 plus miles multiple days in a row.
Class 3 ped-elecs are almost solely regulated to commuter bikes, meant to get people out of cars and are limited to 28 MPH assist.
Class 2 ebikes are throttle assisted and while limited to assist cutting out at 20 MPH, these are not the kind that people are advocating for trail use. Even among most ebikers, throttle equals 'motorcycle'. Though, for paraplegics it is talked about making an exception even here.
When it comes right down to it though, its not about eMTB or non (I guess you could say, digital or analog lol) it comes down to rider etiquette. An ass is an ass and just as dangerous, doesn't matter what bike he's on. I even find with the eMTB I am more courteous because it is easier for me to go off line and pedal around an oncoming analog biker.
Oct 26, 2018
I think if you look at an eMTB as something that's just quicker, lazy and leads to poor stamina, you're missing something. I think if you have the stamina and ride an eMTB, you'll simply shred on for longer both ride-wise (longer rides) and age-wise (higher age) than you'd do on a normal MTB.
Long story short: with the self-pushing mindset most MTBers seem to have, you'll probably push yourself harder on an eMTB to try and compensate for the little aid you're getting. So, all will be balanced out in the end I guess. And because you'll be tempted to push harder, an eMTB might actually improve your stamina.
Speed-wise I hope the engineers focus on torque (great for climbing) and distance/stamina aid, rather than top speed. Let the rider decide the top speed of these things and we should all be fine on the trails.
Oct 22, 2018
Oct 25, 2018
Oct 24, 2018
https://www.instructables.com/id/50-Mph-E-Bike/
https://www.electricbike.com/10-fastest-ebikes/
https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/neematics-powerful-50-mph-fr1-breaks-e-bike-mold.html
Oct 22, 2018
A bike with a motor going 50mph on throttle alone is not an ebike, it's a dirtbike and not even part of the discussion. You even mentioning something like that is like bringing up a shotgun when talking about airsoft.