David Folch is the founder and CEO of Dirty Sixer, a boutique bike builder focused on fitting tall riders with big wheel bikes. The Dirty Sixer line currently features gravel, all-road, and electric bikes, and will soon include a mountain bike with 32″ wheels.
- How did your brand Dirty Sixer get started?
- How tall do you have to be for a 32er to make sense?
- What are some of the MTB geometry challenges involved in designing around 32″ wheels? Does anything get easier in terms of fitting tall riders thanks to the bigger wheels?
- Has tire availability limited the development of 32″ wheel bikes up until this point?
- Are any current MTB forks designed to fit 32″ wheels?
- You hinted that you’re working on a full-suspension mountain bike with 32″ wheels. What are the challenges involved in designing a bike like that?
- Will a 36er mountain bike ever be viable in terms of tire and fork availability?
- There are several comments on your Instagram posts from people who are against the idea of a mountain bike with 32″ wheels, seemingly because this would represent another standard. Do you think 32″ wheels will ever gain significant traction like 29er wheels did in the early 2000s?
- What’s next for you in terms of big wheel mountain bike development?
Visit dirtysixer.com to get more info about the bikes and tech discussed in this episode.
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Automated transcript
Jeff Barber 0:00
Hey everybody, welcome to the Singletracks podcast. My name is Jeff, and today my guest is David Folch. David is the founder and CEO of Dirty Sixer, a boutique bike builder focused on fitting tall riders with big wheel bikes. The Dirty Sixer line currently features gravel all road and electric bikes and will soon include a mountain bike with 32 inch wheels. Thanks for joining me.
David Folch
Hi, Jeff, thank you for having me on your show.
Jeff Barber
So tell us, how did your brand dirty sixer get started?
David Folch 0:45
That’s a good place to start indeed, because you know being six-foot-six myself, almost two meters, I was riding regular bikes, road bikes. I never found any XXL sizes back in the days, so I was riding those kind of unstable bikes, and I crashed, broke my ankle in two parts. And at that point I was like, Okay, let’s, let’s make something that is going to be actually the right size for us, though. I mean, for us. First of all, I sought to make a bike for myself. So necessity being the mother of invention, I was, I was faced to, you know, designing something bigger proportionate, and I discovered that they were bigger wheels. They were used for unicycles. And I was having a background of photographer, you know, I often use this analogy of the Photoshop tool to expand, to expand the picture. So if you expand the picture proportionally, so when you get the taller rider, you should get bigger wheels. So everything being in proportions. So that’s how I got started trying to design a bigger bike with, back in the days, 36 inch wheels.
Jeff Barber 1:57
Those were huge.
David Folch 2:01
Yeah, they are and, and they’ve been around for a while, actually. So the history of 36 is not totally clear to me yet, but I think it’s more than 25 years now that the 36 inch wheel was created, I believe in the US, by the company named Cocker. They make, they make vintage style tires for vintage retro motorcycles and cars. So I guess, I guess it started there, uh, around 25 years ago. Okay, so way before, way before I started to try to make proportionate bikes.
Jeff Barber 2:46
Well, you said that you you tried riding bikes and you crashed and got injured. Were you like, were you like, a serious bike rider, or were you just recreational? Like, what, what was, was kind of your, your bike background?
David Folch 2:59
No, no, I’m a total recreational. I never took myself seriously. And again, you know, being so tall You cannot be serious about, you know, riding bikes, it’s not a sport that we usually have any advantage. It’s not basketball, it’s not volleyball or tennis. Biking is definitely, if you want to be professional or serious, you have to, you know, like, be a little bit more compact. Should I say, right?
Jeff Barber 3:29
Yeah. I mean, I’ve always wondered about that, is there, is there, like, an ideal height for bikers, particularly, I mean, we’re, we’re focused on mountain bikers at Singletracks and so, yeah, I always wonder, Is there, like, like, are smaller riders at an advantage, or bigger or people in the middle? I mean, it sounds like, you know, very, extremely tall people, people your height six, six and taller, it is a real challenge to ride a mountain bike.
David Folch 3:56
Yeah, definitely. So that that is, and I’m not talking about the low branches on trails, that is a clear disadvantage, but yeah, for us to be able to be efficient and safe on a bike, and again, I’m not a racer, so I will not be able to talk about race conditions, but it was pretty difficult to find balance on the bike, even if you’re just catching a little bit of air between jumps. You know, when you’re tall and you’re riding 29 or double XL, which I used to have from a very good company. We might go back there at some point. But Ventana in in Sacramento, used to make my 30 Sixers, but they also make and they primarily make mountain bikes, and I used to have one of those, and I loved it, but again, 29 or felt like I was jumping on a BMX. So that would be for the best, and I will. That can, I can tell, maybe for for regular people that ride 27 or MX wheels, what if I was asking you to ride your trails with your kids bike? So right would you be? Would you be happy, comfortable, safe? Would you be able to take the same gems, same lines, same speed, or just having fun, you know? So that’s basically how I translate our discomfort for us tall and again, six, six, I realized that I wasn’t that all finally, when, when I met my customers and and I realized that everybody around me that was working with making bikes was in average six foot 10. So finally I was like six things, not that tall. So yeah, basically, that’s how I looked at the problem. What can we do to make something make us tall feel normal on the bike, or feel like you feel you know more people you can feel on the bike. And of course, regardless of how the terrain, how the trails are built, of course, we’re bigger than the usual. We don’t fit in cars. We don’t our legs don’t fit under the table. We bang our heads on doors so we don’t fit everywhere. So of course, when we are on a trail that is a little bit technical, yeah, we always have to think about the head and the branches. And of course, because the bikes are bigger, also, you cannot expect to have the same handling or the same agility. Of course, what I hear most of the time is, what about the switchbacks? Yes, of course, switchbacks are not going to be the same on a bigger bike. It’s the reality, but it’s our reality. We’re bigger or taller, so we don’t fit on tight switchbacks, right?
Jeff Barber 7:02
Yeah. Well, yeah, I saw that a lot of your customers are NBA players, basketball players, and even some of those players, I think I saw like, Shaquille O’Neal was one of your customers, and picture of him even with, like, a, I don’t remember if it was a 36 inch bike or 32 but 36 even with that, it looked small. It looked too small for him. Like, what is, what is kind of the limit for those bigger wheel bikes?
David Folch 7:32
Well, frame size and riders, I think my tallest riders, are seven-foot-five.
Jeff Barber 7:39
That’s got to be, I mean, there’s not many people above 7-foot-5 in the world!
David Folch 7:47
Exactly. So, of course, the if you look at a population distribution, we are on the top of the pyramid of the height distribution.
Jeff Barber 8:01
Do you know the percentage? Is it like half, top half a percent or something? Once you’re up at six foot six?
David Folch 8:11
Yeah, I think it’s over six-foot-five is 1% of the population based on information I’ve gathered a long time ago. But the population is growing up also. That is one thing. That is one reality that I’ve actually seen in a few reports, is that population is growing up. So we are taller than our dads or grandpa, and it seems that the population globally will be a little bit taller every year coming so that’s also pretty good thing for the sales.
Jeff Barber 8:55
So what about on the other end of the height spectrum, like, what, what is the the shortest you could be and still ride a bike with 32 inch wheels comfortably. You’re six foot six. You ride a 32 inch bike. Could you go any lower than that? Like, I’m six foot three. So would that? Would I be uncomfortable on a bike with wheels that big?
David Folch 9:20
Yeah, definitely. There’s the 32-inch wheel is actually a very good platform to cater to more riders, and not only tall and super tall riders. The analogy that I often use is the 32 is for point guards, when the 36 was four centers, okay, so definitely, I think that if your bike curious, and you have plenty of other bikes in your garage, and you’re curious about 32 inch wheels, I think that starting, 58590, wow, I would say that you might be. Able to enjoy. But again, you know it’s, it’s really about how the rider is getting an N plus one bike and trying something different. I would say that the 32 inch wheels is going to be definitely an advantage over 29 or for someone that is starting six to six, three.
Jeff Barber 10:21
Okay, gotcha, yeah. Well, so what are some of the mountain bike geometry challenges involved in designing around these 32 inch wheels, so you got the bigger wheels? Are there clearances or other things that make that design difficult compared to, say, a bike that that has 29 inch wheels?
David Folch 10:42
Actually, because of the experience that I have with the 36 inch wheels, which really is much bigger than anything else. So that was mostly the challenges that I’ve been dealing with for the past 10 years, for more than 10 years, when, when I started the 36 for brand. So it’s been 10 years that I’m working around those issues. One of the most common comment from people is the toe overlap. So toe overlap is only a problem if you’re making a very short frame with 36 inch wheels, okay, and I used to use really longer cranks, of which I backed off a little bit recently.
Jeff Barber 11:32
How long? How long were the cranks?
David Folch 11:34
I used to put 210 millimeter cranks on the five XL, but that wasn’t the five XL. So five XL you had to be, like, taller than seven-foot-one.
Jeff Barber 11:49
So you get toe overlap with the big shoe size too, I’m guessing.
David Folch 11:52
And, of course, bigger shoe size, so that adds even more of the toe overlap issue to resolve.
Jeff Barber 11:57
So, and this was a problem with 29ers too, when they first came out with a lot of them. And also, I think gravel bikes, even more recently, the toe overlap is an issue.
David Folch 12:09
Yes, because most of the brands are designing compact bikes. So again, everywhere you feel that, oh, the bike is too long. Your wind base is too long. We were talking about switchbacks. Yes, the bike is going to be inherently longer if you use bigger wheels and on top of it, if you make it, if you design it for taller riders, which is always going to be the the angle that 36 rare bikes are designed and fabricated for. I really cater to my tall brothers and of course, everything is oversized on the bike. It’s not it’s not a bike that I’m looking at making the light as possible. What I want is a bike that people that are heavier and taller can really trash around. They can play with it. It’s not a fragile bike. It’s not a custom bike that is so shiny that you don’t want to don’t want to abuse it. No, the 36 year bikes are made to be abused. They are over built. They are over engineered. And it really makes me happy when I see a big guy, taller than me, heavier than me, jumping stuff or riding no hands, or bombing downstairs, that that is for me to prove that my job is done.
Jeff Barber 13:27
Wow. I mean, that seems, definitely seems like it’s a challenge to try to because the tubes are longer too, right? So do you have to use, like, larger tube stock? A lot of your bikes are titanium, it looks like. And so are you using something different than, say, someone would use to build a 29er?
David Folch 13:47
No. First of all, all the 36 are made with alloy. So 6061, the frame, there is some titanium frames that I’m making, mostly to use as a as a prototype or testing. Okay, but titanium is not something available yet in the lineup, so yeah, aluminum allows us to use bigger diameter tubing without too much of a compromise for the weight. And of course, there’s a few things that helped the researcher to reach this kind of level of fabricating is tandem and E bikes. So most of the time when I use when I look at tubing, I look at what’s being used for tandems or for E bikes. So because, of course, you have two riders on a tandem, which equal to, somehow, some of my customers. So when you have that kind of weight, I definitely look and I took a lot of available and existing solutions from tandem. Or E bikes. So yeah, definitely bigger tubing, bigger diameter, different Gage, and definitely a lot of attention to the design to make something that is durable and reliable and and, of course, fabrication, fabricating all the frames are made in Taiwan by a small run family factory. Then I visit regularly, like every two months I’m in Taiwan. So it’s really like the point that I make is 36 are made to be durable, and the safety of the bike is my number one concern. It’s not the weight, it’s not the latest tech, it’s not the nicest shape of whatever tubing. It’s really the safety of the bike. Again, when you have six foot 10 and around 250 to 80 pounds riders in average on your bikes. You want to be sure that the bike is safe.
Jeff Barber 16:05
That makes sense. Well, you also talked about the challenges of handling on a bike for taller riders, and then, obviously, with a bigger bike, what’s like the bottom bracket height on a 30 bike with 32 inch wheels. Is it similar to what you’d find on another mountain bike? Or is it, is it a little bit elevated from that just because the wheels are higher?
David Folch 16:30
Yeah, of course. So I mean to start with the bottom bracket. I don’t have in mind the exact bottom bracket height for the 32 gravel and mountain bike. But yes, there is few things that influence the bottom bracket height is going to be the crank length, and of course, the definition of the bike view, you don’t put the same bottom bracket height for a gravel bike compared to mountain bike being a hardtail or full suspension. So yes, of course, the bottom bracket is going to be a little bit higher than your regular 20 Niner. And again, I’m not trying. Maybe you’ve seen some 36 inch bike with a very low bottom bracket. So that is that was mostly adaptation that some custom builder did for shorter riders.
Jeff Barber 17:28
Yeah, where you’re really in, like, it’s a big bottom bracket drop from the axle height.
David Folch 17:33
Yeah, exactly. And of course, that position, that bottom bracket position, influenced the handling. But again, what I would like to say is handling is not going to be as how to say that it’s not going to be as much as a concern in terms of of the range of the of the specification in geometry that you can use on bigger wheels because they are less prone to, like, barrier finicky, like a half a degree change in the head tube angle, or a few millimeter here and there. You know it’s again, because we are bigger and we have so much more influence on the bike that finally, the rider skills are extremely important for a big guy on the bike, because again, we have more leverage, more weight, we can apply more downforce. We can, yeah, it’s, it’s different point of view when you’re making something for a big guy, because, again, you want stability. You don’t want the bike to be extremely easy to turn, or, you know, fast and, you know, flickable. You don’t want that. Because when someone is 610, 280, pounds and has been off a bike for the majority of his life because he grew up taller than than six, six at 14 or 15 years old, those guys have a longer learning, learning curve to write, to be able to ride and enjoy a bike.
Jeff Barber 19:25
And with longer limbs, you have more leverage, and so, like you’re saying, a small movement translates into something a lot more at the handlebars, or, you know, at the cranks. And I’ve heard a lot of really tall riders, people, people taller than me, saying that in a lot of ways. When you’re tall, one of the advantages is that you can use your body more for suspension. You know, you’ve got longer arm length to work with, and you can, kind of, like, take it out a little bit more with your knees and with your elbows. Maybe then. Someone who’s not as tall, and I want to talk about suspension, but first, we’ve seen evidence that that Maxis has, or will have a 32 inch by 2.4 inch Aspen tire coming out soon, and it looks like V also makes a 32 inch tire, I believe, the T monster. So has tire availability limited development of 32 inch wheel mountain bikes up until this point? Or yeah, why haven’t we seen more 32 inch mountain bikes? Do you think?
David Folch 20:34
Yeah, definitely, the tire availability was a big, big issue, maybe not the issue, but one of the thing, or maybe the main thing, that held the 32 because 32 again, I think, started maybe eight, a little bit more than eight years ago. Yeah, so we had crappy tires from a big box bicycle, I don’t want to say the name, but…
Jeff Barber 21:07
It was like a unicycle tire, right? Is that what it was back then?
David Folch 21:10
No. So the 32 started as a cruiser, a very cheap user, sold in this big box that I don’t want to say today. Right then the unicycle guys at unicycle DotCom, they saw the opportunity, and they started to make one of their own tire thread that they already had in 36 they started to make this tire in 32 and that kind of snowballed from from there, because when I saw that they were making a better quality tire than the one that they that was available at the big box store for their cruiser, I was definitely interested in following up with this, with size.
Jeff Barber 21:58
And this was like a higher volume tire, right? Because you also have gravel bikes and sort of road all road bikes with 32 inch tires, but I imagine those are, those are something different. Those are much narrower.
David Folch 22:11
Yes. So the unicycle tire was two and a quarter inch wide, okay, so two point 25 and the one that I make with Vee rubber. So the Vee tire, we actually make this tire together. So, yeah, this is, this is the T-Monster thread pattern. And for the 32 I requested to have 2.4 which is a, what I thought was a good compromise for tire that can be used for gravel, I should say monster gravel, and also for the mountain bike. And that’s also a tire that I developed for the e-bike, so the e-36er Bosch that we’re fabricating right now. And so that’s the tire. That’s the Vee tire, T-Monster 2.4 that I developed with them. That is on the 36 bikes, e-bike, gravel and mountain bike.
I discovered that Maxxis was making a 2.4 Aspen last year at the Taipei show. So that was a good surprise, and that was really cool to see that they were also jumping on the thirty two inch wheel train. So that’s pretty, pretty cool to see a big brand coming up with their own tire. There’s a few explanation of of this tire, but to be honest, I don’t know exactly what Maxis is going to do with this tire. I have a few of them. Of course. I’ve been testing them for few months now, a little bit more than six months, I’ve been riding those tires. They’re fantastic. They’re super light. They’re way lighter than the one that I made with speed tire, because mine is made for E bike and heavy riders. So my conception of a tire, my definition of my tire for 32 is almost at the opposite range of axis because they developed that tire to make it available for cross country racers, so and bicycle brands. So what we will see if their project is finally launching is very light, cross country, sorry, to edge spike from, from, I guess there’s already two big brands working on it.
Jeff Barber 24:53
That does seem to suggest that there is another market for this, not. Just tall, but also racing. To see this, this cross country race tire. Yeah, super interesting. Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, love it. So, so obviously, to build a proper mountain bike, you need suspension, ideally, front and rear, and it looks like the the mountain bike that you’re working on is running a fork from Rin. Yes, is that? Is that kind of the only option available that would fit a 32 inch wheel at the moment? Or there are other forks that could be a possibility for that kind of bike?
David Folch 25:34
So in terms of single crown fork, indeed, the wren is a good solution, because I know Kevin, the founder of the brand, and, yeah, that was a pretty easy, simple solution to just use their fork with a little bit of modification on the travel and coming out. So yeah, inverted fork are usually the de facto solution for mega wheels, because I’ve been using in the past, for the 36 inch mountain bike that I used to have for just a year or two, I used a big dual crown inverted so I used to have the MRP, MRP group making my own CNC, CNC crowns for this so, but that was that was a very interesting, heavy fork, right? So, of course, going back to single crown, anything that is inverted should, by definition, fit a 32 inch wheel. It’s just a matter again, of, you know, tuning the fork for the the tire height to to avoid bottoming out.
Jeff Barber 26:56
You have to reduce the travel on some of them?
David Folch 27:01
Maybe, yeah, a little bit. Because when you have regular forks with a with a arch connecting the two lower legs of the fork, this arch is usually what limit the compatibility with 32 right? That say there are some forks for fat bikes that could work. Also, we’re testing few other solutions. Yeah, it has to be a suspension fork made for big fat tires that in diameter are almost just a few centimeter, just a few millimeter under the 32×2.4.
Jeff Barber 27:42
Well, so it sounds like you’re you’re developing this bike. How close are you to launching a 32-inch mountain bike?
David Folch 27:52
So the hardtail is going to be available to pre-order in a few days, I think by the end of by the end of the week, that’s usually what I do with the launch of the new models. I offer big discount to the customers that are interested in pre ordering. So it’s like it’s kind of a crowd crowdfunding, situation. So where you get a big discount, you pay in advance and you wait patiently that I deal with all the quirks and all of the fabrication in Taiwan and produce, actually what is ordered. So what I’m trying to do, because it’s a, it’s a, it’s a small production. It’s not custom made. That’s really the big difference that I want to, you know, make with the and I love custom builders, and I used to work with custom builders. They make fantastic things, but it’s one off. It’s a it’s basically a prototype when you ride a custom bike. So what I do is that I go to Taiwan, and I have this independent firm that is testing, you know, frame, forks, wheels, pedals, everything needs to be tested. And all the bikes that I produce are tested, and they surpass all of the European norms by a good margin. Sometimes we even break the machine which, which is what happened with my own pedals. I designed pedals with flat pedals that are way bigger, 160 by 110 for big feet, you know? And we tested those, and we actually blocked the testing machine without breaking the pedals. So that’s definitely the big difference, you know, when it’s time for for producing, and I also don’t want to over produce.
Jeff Barber 29:49
Right, it’s not a big market.
David Folch 29:51
No, we are in a different situation now. So it’s way safer for a small brand. Like 36 or two only produce what is ordered. So that’s why the pre order campaign is super important, and people that really want to 32 being gravel or being mountain bike, they can prepay for their bike with usually a bigger 30% discount. Weight, patiently that we make them, and then they get their 36 or 32 inch wheel, again, gravel or mountain bike or E bike, and that’s, that’s how I go to production.
Jeff Barber 30:35
Yeah, are there? Are there multiple sizes of these bikes? I mean, you said they’re not custom. So how many sizes do you have typically?
David Folch 30:44
Yeah, the 36 all roadmap two that I made maybe two years ago was available in five sizes. So okay, yeah, from Excel to five XL. And for the 32 gravel and mountain bike, we’re not going to have five sizes, because that’s way too much in terms of production. So I think it’s going to be around three size. So might start with Excel, double XL and triple XL. And if there is enough demand for a size large, I might add a size large.
Jeff Barber 31:28
So yeah, you talked about this mountain bike that’s coming out within just a few days. Actually, by the time people are listening to this, I think it’ll probably already be live. And then you also had mentioned to me that you are thinking about a full suspension mountain bike with 32 inch wheels. Is that right?
David Folch 31:49
Yes, yes, of course, yeah. I have already a few prototypes of the 36 full suspension a 36 Wow, yeah. So that is massive, that is really for one kind of riding. So it’s a it’s a pretty special bike, but I wanted something that was more more usable, like a trail bike, like trail and you roll, not, not a downhill, because definitely the 36 fold suspension that I, I made is a downhill bike. So it’s, it’s extreme. So, yeah, there’s certainly two full suspension we work on it. I hope that in a few months we’ll have the first types. And it’s been, it’s been designed again with the big riders in mind, so it’s not flimsy, kind of super light and a full suspension that will ask a lot of maintenance. So that was my, my. My goals here is to make something that is strong and durable for big guys that doesn’t need to be maintained super, super neat after every, every ride. So definitely, the geometry is going to be something pretty easy and simple. I’m not going to do something with a very complicated rear swing arm and right the travel path it’s, it’s going to be pretty simple for suspension, yeah, like single pivot, yes. But efficient, efficient, easy to maintain, and on top of it, reliable with heavy riders on it.
Jeff Barber 33:40
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s cool. Like, I guess for a lot of those riders, either they’ve, they’ve never ridden a bike like that, or they’re kind of squeezing themselves into like a 2XL Santa Cruz or something like that, right?
David Folch 33:55
Yeah. Actually, recently, there are more options for super tall riders. Yes, there is the Santa Cruz double XL. You can find double xls, maybe track specialized. But I’ve seen, I’ve seen a very few and super interesting. And I wish those options would have been available 15-20, years ago.
Jeff Barber 34:24
But still, the wheels, like you’re saying, the wheels aren’t necessarily proportional. I mean, it would be like an adult bike, yeah. And then you throw 20 inch wheels on it, and it, it’s just not, it’s not quite the same. I mean, I mean the pedals, like, you know, the the seat height is going to be fine, I’m sure, and the the handlebars will be about where they need to be, but you still your own. You’re on smaller wheels than you need, proportionally.
David Folch 34:50
Exactly. So there’s a there’s the dynamic of of a bike that is undersized, even if the ergonomics are good, like you said, you. And if you can definitely tweak the ergonomics on a bike, but ultimately the center of gravity of the rider, and we’re talking not only static, but you know, when we are riding and we are moving that big torso around, this is where the bigger wheels and the longer wheelbase and all of that geometry, all of the work that goes into designing something that is balanced for a bigger guy. So I was about to mention Nikolai, that is a German brand that I really like. They make double triple Excel bikes based their regular geometry. And I really love what they’re doing. They are really on top of the gearbox and crazy ideas like that. But again, I saw recently a picture of one of their customer that must have been 610, on a on a 27.5 wheel bike, and the ergonomics look good. The guy look the rider looked like he could be comfortable on the bike, but when I see this tall and heavy rider on those tiny wheels, I’m like, this is this is where dynamics are not going to work for this guy. Because again, I mean, again, it go back to what kind of riding are you doing and what kind of rider you are, right? So of course, if you’re riding BMX, if you’re riding dirt jump bike, if you need something that is really small under you that need to be flicked, that need to move fast under you. Yes, smaller wheels are going to be and that’s what BMX and their jump bike use, 2024 maybe 26 inch wheels. So yes, if you are into this kind of riding, big wheels are not going to be an interesting solution for you. But if you’re a regular, regular rider, train rider, like to catch care a little bit, but not big air. We’re not talking about Red Bull Rampage kind of jump. No, the 32 is not going to be a Red Bull Rampage bike tomorrow or not in 10 years. I don’t think so, unless all of the all of the riders are two meter high and at that point, yes, so that might be it. That might take us 30 or 40 more years on that.
Jeff Barber 37:43
Evolution, yeah. Well, you know, obviously your your bikes with 32 and 36 inch wheels, you’re focused on tall riders and extremely tall riders at the same time, there are a lot of comments on your Instagram posts with these bikes from people who, I’m assuming are not tall riders, but they’re, they seem to be really against this idea of a mountain bike with 32 inch wheels. And I’m guessing, I’m guessing, because people are afraid this is going to be like a new standard, or, you know, it’s going to be 29 ers all over again. Is that, I mean, we did talk about, like, there is this Maxis tire, and maybe, maybe there is some use for it in racing. Do you think 32 inch? Could it ever be like a 29 or thing? Or is it always going to be really better suited for for extremely tall individuals?
David Folch 38:38
So yes, that’s an interesting take about how the mountain bike comments are like totally frightened about new wheel size. But it’s not about replacing 29 or signing the death of 26 I’m totally against that idea, I still believe that all wheel size have a usage, depending on the riders, height, depending on what you need from your bike. I think 26 even 24 is perfect for cargo bikes. There’s there’s a lot of usage for mountain bike, 26 inch wheels for smaller riders. So again, the 32 is just going to be an additional solution for people that are interested in that are maybe over 5859, and are curious enough, there might be a good usage for for more people on 32 than there was on 36 so that is one aspect of the thing. But yes, definitely, if people can see that not as a new standard, but as an additional solution. Because we’re I’m not reinventing right, hub spacing. I’m not reinventing crank, uh, thread, or press fit or whatever. These are the things that are actually bothering me, right? Well, not much from the from the hub size, because since the beginning of 36 year, I’ve been using Fat Bike hubs and like, like I said before, e bikes, tandems and fat bikes really enabled 36 or to make device like they are now, because thanks to fat bike hubs and big breaks from E bikes or tandems or lot of things that I that other type of bicycle parts have been really important for for the evolution of 36 or so fat bike hubs, 150 in the front, 197 in the back, because it’s a Better triangulation, you can make a really strong wheel with the those flanges far apart. So that is something that, again, you know, when you have big and tall guys on your your bike, you want to be sure that you start from the from the beginning with the right hub size. So that’s, that’s one of this thing, right?
Jeff Barber 41:21
And on fat bikes, one of the challenges with that wider hub is that Q factor, right? And but I’m guessing, for a taller rider, a wider Q factor is actually an advantage that’s going to feel more comfortable, is that, is that something you consider?
David Folch 41:36
Yes, of course, the Q factor. There’s two things that because usually tall, tall riders are maybe have a wider hips, so at that point, it is one, one thing that might help for them, but also because we have longer legs, so the angle of how the leg from the hip goes down to the pedal, this angle is less it’s less acute than if you’re shorter. So, because we have longer leverage, longer legs, wider hips, the Q factor of fat bike is not really a problem for our customers.
Jeff Barber 42:23
Wow, interesting. So what’s next for you in terms of developing these big wheel bikes? Sounds like the mountain bike is the current project, and I’m sure you’ll be busy with that for a while. But what else are you looking at in terms of these big wheel bikes.
Speaker 1 42:41
Yeah, so there’s a lot of work already to deliver the E bikes first. So the E bike, actually, I made the two wheels available on the E bike. The 32 is available for the smaller size and the two bigger size that are available on 36 inch waves. So finish those e bikes, deliver and at the same time launch the fabrication of the gravel and mountain bike 32 so the mountain bike 32 is going to be the hardtail to begin with. The pictures that you’ve seen that I published are really other test mu, so it’s really not the final geometry that we’re going to have on that on that mountain bike to now have a much slacker head tube angle and lower top tube. So there’s a few things that are going to change in the geometry of that hardtail. 32 we mentioned the full suspension. That been a long, long process too, because, yeah, it’s it involves much more design and engineering than hardtail. I hope to have sample type in a few months with this full suspension and and the future might be to put some electric motor in the in the mountain bike hardtail to begin with.
Jeff Barber 44:22
So a lot of things to try to keep track of and work with this.
David Folch 44:27
Yeah, it’s interesting, and there’s, there’s a lot of other applications we can talk about with big wheels. But this, I have lot of crazy, crazy ideas working on working on finding suppliers for another really crazy stuff coming up, but again, it’s going to be something with mixed wheels. It’s not necessarily going to be a mountain bike, but actually the just to go back on the mullet like we. Say now, yes, there’s going to be a valid version for the full suspension, because I do believe that 32 inch front will really help you on big downhill stuff or gnarly Enduro. But yeah, definitely, when you start to really go very steep, there’s really gnarly downhill trails. I think the mullet with a 29 in the back is going to be a it’s going to be a good, good way to to appreciate the advantage of the 32 in the front.
Jeff Barber 45:43
Well, we didn’t really talk about it, but what are kind of the constraints for you to develop these things? I mean, I assumed it would be tires, and it sounds like at least now, there’s a couple of choices, and then you also have a fork that you can use for a big wheel bike. But are there other components that that make this a little bit more challenging for those kinds of projects?
David Folch 46:07
Like you said, the tire for now, the most aggressive tire is the T-Monster. But yes, there will be another tire for specific for more and euro more trail usage. So yes, there will be another tire hooking on it the fork. Yes, we have 141 50 millimeter. Now with the fork, there’s also going back to dual crown and inverted fork. There’s also a few other forks that we can use that are dual crown. So not, not going to mention yet, the potential partners. But yes, there are lots of interest. Actually, it’s, it’s now pretty interesting to see the the brands contacting me and asking me for information of how to develop together forms. So, yeah, there’s going to be more stuff, interesting stuff. And again, there’s nothing that the 32 makes extremely challenging compared to the 36 to be honest, the 32 is is it’s not a walk in the park, I would say. But after 10 years of rejections, after 10 years of comments from people that are not even remotely concerned by 36 inch wheels because they will never write one or be told not to write one after those that more than a decade working on 36 you know, by definition, the wheel is smaller. It has less, less resistance for anything related to tooling, related to, you know, acceptation from people. They’re like, Okay, well, it’s bigger than 32 is bigger than 29 but it’s not as big as 36.
Jeff Barber 48:18
You started with the hard one, and are working your way backwards.
David Folch 48:21
I don’t know if it’s smart, but that’s how it happens.
Jeff Barber 48:26
So, yeah, it worked out. Well, David, thank you so much for taking the time to chat about Big Wheel bikes and share what you’re working on. I learned a lot. And, yeah, it’s definitely really cool to see what you’re doing.
David Folch 48:39
Thank you. Thanks, Jeff, and thanks for having me on your podcast. It’s a real honor.
Jeff Barber 48:44
Awesome, awesome. Well, you can learn more about the bikes we talked about today at dirtysixer.com, and you can also follow David and the brand at dirty sixer on Instagram. That’s all we’ve got this time. We’ll talk to you again next time!
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